This is pretty good in accurately describing most cities. When you get inland and further away from the dream coast, many cities went from literal rammed earth farm houses , to malls and high rises. Folks WANT to live in those towers on a high floor because their childhood was spent in a mud shack or a 2 room concrete box. Modern development with a wall around it with a high floor unit is high status. As an example, in Enshi it's considered desirable to be close to the airport because that's where the brand new stuff is. You can drive for about 10 minutes, be on the edge of beautiful mountain scenery, and you'll be derided and laughed at for wanting to live out with the peasants.
I would also add the tombstone cities that consist of densely-packed highrises built literally out in in the middle of a cornfield. These highrises are populated with former villagers, thus emptying out the land for agriculture, but destroying any sense of organic community in the process. A bit like the "new citiies," but not attached to anything.
I'd also add that I feel this "drone shot with saturation at 11" is also something perpetuated by Chinese themselves quite a bit (the star trek version, I think the cyberpunk version is more often evoked by foreigners). If you work with Chinese companies there's basically no way you can have a website without at least one overly colorful photo of a business district skyline in the "where we are" - section (and of course also obligatory is at least one picture of neatly stacked boxes in a warehouse). I am fascinated by how the depiction of cities says something about the perception of what "civilization" and "progress" mean to certain cultures. I am very happy that China isn't going all in on car-centricity like north American modernism of the 50s,60s and beyond (while that certainly also exists though).
I always deeply enjoy coming to China and just wandering and exploring places, strolling through apartment high rises, glitzy malls and ending up in the commie-block/urban village places with lots of small shops, food options and "hustle and bustle" - all within half an hour of walk or so. I love how you can easily spot the "era" of buildings and how each generation promises a new mode of living. I often did wonder what the 2030 version of the insanely high residential tower with private "park" in between will look like (something I would count as the 2010+ generation of living that more or less endures until today). The most quintessentially "Chinese vibe" I always get indeed in the very walkable commie block/urban village areas where live still largely happens on the street. People eat/chill/socialize/work just out in the open and as an outsider you can peel back the layers and observe. Life just feels real and uninhibited. Something that always made North America very unappealing to me for traveling, things are unwalkable, life happens indoors, all an outsider can do is look at facades and assume. The only time you ever interact with people is when you buy something. Of course this is bias speaking and Chinese life doesn't happen the way it happens for the benefit of the outsider. But it is one of the few places where I feel "modernity" and this semi public life still exist next to each other - and a lot of this is thanks to the structure of city described here where you have these different classes of city scape that seem almost randomly scattered and a giant glass office tower can be right next to crummy allies with street food. This would be impossible in a strictly concentric city. Probably more important for the specific "China-vibe" than you would think.
Ok, enough rambling, but thanks for making me think about this! I do love some of these non-food thoughts and wish you guys would share more of them. I think this substack is a great place for this where you probably have to worry also less about your "brand". Keep it coming!
I never analysed Chinese cities in depth, but your view makes sense.
I lived in Fuzhou, Ningbo, Guangzhou for several years, plus a few months in Hangzhou and in Xiamen. But I left China in 2007 and of course lots has changed. When I visited Guangzhou again in 2012, I stayed with a friend in one of the new areas, not the Zhujiang Xincheng, but also not far from there. I once walked from her area direction South and I had to cross a couple of roads with 4 or 5 lanes each. The only way was to use either the overpass or the underpass, both without any facilities for older people or for those in a wheeling chair. I remember thinking that it was like being trapped, if you are old and you live surrounded by large avenues, you cannot go anywhere except the nearest shops, unless you have a car or taxi.
The freshness of food also decreased in large cities, in my opinion. Too many fast-food, whether serving Chinese or Western food; the food is already prepared and sits there waiting to be picked by the customer. Maybe in smaller cities or in the countryside is better, and some of the pictures show that there are areas which still retain their atmosphere.
I am going to China again next year, it will be interesting for sure.
Off the top of your head, what are the five most livable cities in China? Or if not cities, five most livable neighborhoods in big cities? Assume there isn't a need to commute for work.
So I can tell you places that we've enjoyed. This'll obviously be colored by personal tastes - the world is still waiting on a Chinese equivalent of CityNerd to do something more comprehensive :)
In no particular order, places we've liked the form of:
- Shunde, Guangdong (Daliang District)
- Liuzhou, Guangxi
- Guangzhou, Guangdong (Yuexiu District)
- Shaoxing, Zhejiang
- Zigong, Sichuan
- Fuzhou, Fujian
- Qingdao, Shandong (Shinan District)
- Hengyang, Hunan
- Guiyang, Guizhou (Yunyang District - others may have a different taste than us, but we love Guiyang)
- Most smaller PRD cities have a very solid old town
Obviously, different people would have different metrics for livability, but these are places we think have solid form. Like, Hengyang has some fantastic bones (and very good food), but it might be a difficult choice for a foreigner new to the country. Or where we're moving soon (Yuxi, around the Kunming plateau) doesn't have the very best form we've seen in China... but it's solid enough, eminently bikeable, and the weather is so gorgeous than the periodic sin is well forgiven.
Other neighborhoods we've enjoyed:
- Kunming, around Cuihu
- Shenzhen, around Shekou
- Zhanjiang old town
- Beihai old town
- Suzhou old town is nice so long as you can beat the tourists
- Not the biggest lover of the French Concession in Shanghai, but no arguing with that grade A urban form. I've got mixed feelings on Shanghai in general, but form-wise it's often a standout
What an excellent list! Why not Dali or Xiamen? Those seem to come up a lot in lists of livable Chinese cities...
Does Chinese media publish a yearly round-up of most livable cities or is that not common there? I know there is a yearly list for France, UK, and Italy (not to mention US) constantly published by local media (likely with support of local real estate industries)
I'm planning a trip to Yunnan soon but have heard that Kunming is kind of meh. What brings you to Yuxi?
So Dali and Xiamen are both alright, and I don't have a ton of experience in either city. There's obviously people that love the places, and I'm not a believer in yucking on other people's yums. I can only tell you why they didn't pop into the top of my head, personally:
- Xiamen I would compare quite a bit to the Futian district in Shenzhen. Though a touch denser, the city can get a bit disjointed. The basic form is 'new town' connected by 'urban village'. And while I quite enjoy urban villages, in my mental rating system for a city there's definitely points knocked off in my head for those places that *rely* on urban villages for street life and walkability. Food is also less exciting than most cities in China, in my experience at least (which probably also colors my impressions tbh)
- Dali I've last gone to ages ago, so again, not the very best sources on the city. I think of Dali in a similar light to, say, Chiang Mai in Thailand - it's a city beloved by many, with a walkable albeit INCREDIBLY tourist old town, with the residents then scattered, quite spread out from that historical core.
Neither are bad places, and I could definitely see why someone would enjoy living there. That said, I personally think both places are kinda overrated by millennial Chinese hipsters (文艺青年)
Kunming is pleasant enough, but the general form is very... Beijing-esque if that makes any sense? Cool neighborhoods tucked in against the general backdrop of commie blocks and wide boulevards. It's also one of those cities like Guangzhou where the best food is found on the outskirts of the city, rather than the city center.
Excellent info. I had suspected as much about Dali. I view most cites/travel through a food lens so Fujian was never that interesting to me, so it's good to hear that sentiment confirmed...
Very interesting summary of a sprawling country but none of this sounds very attractive- it sounds like the 10 worst European cities would be nicer to live in than the 10 best Chinese cities?
I think this would be pretty uncharitable, but perhaps not the *most* unreasonable critique? As I said in the post, when it comes to urban form… in my view Chinese cities compare favorably to those in India, Southeast Asia, and post-automobile America (i.e. any city not named New York, Boston, Philadelphia, DC, or San Francisco). Pre-automobile North America and Europe, less so.
Of course, everybody has different tastes and values different things. I enjoy Chinese cities. There are undeniably some warts, but as someone that grew up in the American suburbs perhaps I’m less picky than someone that grew up in the Netherlands :)
LoL - well yes - and you will note that I did not make that comparison to American cities where none of them would beat any of the European top 10! I was born in the USA and live in Spain. Now if you change the criteria to food? OMG I would love to live in China as I could eat Chinese food (especially spicy) every day for the rest of my life.
This is pretty good in accurately describing most cities. When you get inland and further away from the dream coast, many cities went from literal rammed earth farm houses , to malls and high rises. Folks WANT to live in those towers on a high floor because their childhood was spent in a mud shack or a 2 room concrete box. Modern development with a wall around it with a high floor unit is high status. As an example, in Enshi it's considered desirable to be close to the airport because that's where the brand new stuff is. You can drive for about 10 minutes, be on the edge of beautiful mountain scenery, and you'll be derided and laughed at for wanting to live out with the peasants.
Outstanding as always.
I would also add the tombstone cities that consist of densely-packed highrises built literally out in in the middle of a cornfield. These highrises are populated with former villagers, thus emptying out the land for agriculture, but destroying any sense of organic community in the process. A bit like the "new citiies," but not attached to anything.
everything you write is so goddamn good man
Very interesting observations.
I'd also add that I feel this "drone shot with saturation at 11" is also something perpetuated by Chinese themselves quite a bit (the star trek version, I think the cyberpunk version is more often evoked by foreigners). If you work with Chinese companies there's basically no way you can have a website without at least one overly colorful photo of a business district skyline in the "where we are" - section (and of course also obligatory is at least one picture of neatly stacked boxes in a warehouse). I am fascinated by how the depiction of cities says something about the perception of what "civilization" and "progress" mean to certain cultures. I am very happy that China isn't going all in on car-centricity like north American modernism of the 50s,60s and beyond (while that certainly also exists though).
I always deeply enjoy coming to China and just wandering and exploring places, strolling through apartment high rises, glitzy malls and ending up in the commie-block/urban village places with lots of small shops, food options and "hustle and bustle" - all within half an hour of walk or so. I love how you can easily spot the "era" of buildings and how each generation promises a new mode of living. I often did wonder what the 2030 version of the insanely high residential tower with private "park" in between will look like (something I would count as the 2010+ generation of living that more or less endures until today). The most quintessentially "Chinese vibe" I always get indeed in the very walkable commie block/urban village areas where live still largely happens on the street. People eat/chill/socialize/work just out in the open and as an outsider you can peel back the layers and observe. Life just feels real and uninhibited. Something that always made North America very unappealing to me for traveling, things are unwalkable, life happens indoors, all an outsider can do is look at facades and assume. The only time you ever interact with people is when you buy something. Of course this is bias speaking and Chinese life doesn't happen the way it happens for the benefit of the outsider. But it is one of the few places where I feel "modernity" and this semi public life still exist next to each other - and a lot of this is thanks to the structure of city described here where you have these different classes of city scape that seem almost randomly scattered and a giant glass office tower can be right next to crummy allies with street food. This would be impossible in a strictly concentric city. Probably more important for the specific "China-vibe" than you would think.
Ok, enough rambling, but thanks for making me think about this! I do love some of these non-food thoughts and wish you guys would share more of them. I think this substack is a great place for this where you probably have to worry also less about your "brand". Keep it coming!
I never analysed Chinese cities in depth, but your view makes sense.
I lived in Fuzhou, Ningbo, Guangzhou for several years, plus a few months in Hangzhou and in Xiamen. But I left China in 2007 and of course lots has changed. When I visited Guangzhou again in 2012, I stayed with a friend in one of the new areas, not the Zhujiang Xincheng, but also not far from there. I once walked from her area direction South and I had to cross a couple of roads with 4 or 5 lanes each. The only way was to use either the overpass or the underpass, both without any facilities for older people or for those in a wheeling chair. I remember thinking that it was like being trapped, if you are old and you live surrounded by large avenues, you cannot go anywhere except the nearest shops, unless you have a car or taxi.
The freshness of food also decreased in large cities, in my opinion. Too many fast-food, whether serving Chinese or Western food; the food is already prepared and sits there waiting to be picked by the customer. Maybe in smaller cities or in the countryside is better, and some of the pictures show that there are areas which still retain their atmosphere.
I am going to China again next year, it will be interesting for sure.
The helpful content and good writing I needed this morning! Bookmarking this for when I *finally* book that trip.
This is such a perfect description. I’ve always lived in big cities - London, Beijing, HK - and the one thing I prize above all else is walkability.
Off the top of your head, what are the five most livable cities in China? Or if not cities, five most livable neighborhoods in big cities? Assume there isn't a need to commute for work.
So I can tell you places that we've enjoyed. This'll obviously be colored by personal tastes - the world is still waiting on a Chinese equivalent of CityNerd to do something more comprehensive :)
In no particular order, places we've liked the form of:
- Shunde, Guangdong (Daliang District)
- Liuzhou, Guangxi
- Guangzhou, Guangdong (Yuexiu District)
- Shaoxing, Zhejiang
- Zigong, Sichuan
- Fuzhou, Fujian
- Qingdao, Shandong (Shinan District)
- Hengyang, Hunan
- Guiyang, Guizhou (Yunyang District - others may have a different taste than us, but we love Guiyang)
- Most smaller PRD cities have a very solid old town
Obviously, different people would have different metrics for livability, but these are places we think have solid form. Like, Hengyang has some fantastic bones (and very good food), but it might be a difficult choice for a foreigner new to the country. Or where we're moving soon (Yuxi, around the Kunming plateau) doesn't have the very best form we've seen in China... but it's solid enough, eminently bikeable, and the weather is so gorgeous than the periodic sin is well forgiven.
Other neighborhoods we've enjoyed:
- Kunming, around Cuihu
- Shenzhen, around Shekou
- Zhanjiang old town
- Beihai old town
- Suzhou old town is nice so long as you can beat the tourists
- Not the biggest lover of the French Concession in Shanghai, but no arguing with that grade A urban form. I've got mixed feelings on Shanghai in general, but form-wise it's often a standout
What an excellent list! Why not Dali or Xiamen? Those seem to come up a lot in lists of livable Chinese cities...
Does Chinese media publish a yearly round-up of most livable cities or is that not common there? I know there is a yearly list for France, UK, and Italy (not to mention US) constantly published by local media (likely with support of local real estate industries)
I'm planning a trip to Yunnan soon but have heard that Kunming is kind of meh. What brings you to Yuxi?
So Dali and Xiamen are both alright, and I don't have a ton of experience in either city. There's obviously people that love the places, and I'm not a believer in yucking on other people's yums. I can only tell you why they didn't pop into the top of my head, personally:
- Xiamen I would compare quite a bit to the Futian district in Shenzhen. Though a touch denser, the city can get a bit disjointed. The basic form is 'new town' connected by 'urban village'. And while I quite enjoy urban villages, in my mental rating system for a city there's definitely points knocked off in my head for those places that *rely* on urban villages for street life and walkability. Food is also less exciting than most cities in China, in my experience at least (which probably also colors my impressions tbh)
- Dali I've last gone to ages ago, so again, not the very best sources on the city. I think of Dali in a similar light to, say, Chiang Mai in Thailand - it's a city beloved by many, with a walkable albeit INCREDIBLY tourist old town, with the residents then scattered, quite spread out from that historical core.
Neither are bad places, and I could definitely see why someone would enjoy living there. That said, I personally think both places are kinda overrated by millennial Chinese hipsters (文艺青年)
Kunming is pleasant enough, but the general form is very... Beijing-esque if that makes any sense? Cool neighborhoods tucked in against the general backdrop of commie blocks and wide boulevards. It's also one of those cities like Guangzhou where the best food is found on the outskirts of the city, rather than the city center.
Excellent info. I had suspected as much about Dali. I view most cites/travel through a food lens so Fujian was never that interesting to me, so it's good to hear that sentiment confirmed...
I see Shunde!
Very interesting summary of a sprawling country but none of this sounds very attractive- it sounds like the 10 worst European cities would be nicer to live in than the 10 best Chinese cities?
I think this would be pretty uncharitable, but perhaps not the *most* unreasonable critique? As I said in the post, when it comes to urban form… in my view Chinese cities compare favorably to those in India, Southeast Asia, and post-automobile America (i.e. any city not named New York, Boston, Philadelphia, DC, or San Francisco). Pre-automobile North America and Europe, less so.
Of course, everybody has different tastes and values different things. I enjoy Chinese cities. There are undeniably some warts, but as someone that grew up in the American suburbs perhaps I’m less picky than someone that grew up in the Netherlands :)
LoL - well yes - and you will note that I did not make that comparison to American cities where none of them would beat any of the European top 10! I was born in the USA and live in Spain. Now if you change the criteria to food? OMG I would love to live in China as I could eat Chinese food (especially spicy) every day for the rest of my life.
I don’t think anyone would prefer to live in places like Charleroi over Guangzhou